Biddah - Common misunderstandings and Remedies - Ahle Sunnah wal Jaamah !

[modern fakir]

الابتكار في ضوء القرآن الكريم وأحاديث

BIDDAH IN THE LIGHT OF QURAN AND AHADITH​

Objection No.1
Bid'at is that innovation in religious matters which was brought into practice after the blessed age of Rasul Allah(SAW) and if any novelty is introduced in worldly matters it will not be called a Bid'at. So, Maulid, Fatiha are Bid'at(because they are considered as religious activities) and things such as telegrams, telephones and other inventions will not be called Bid'ats because they have nothing to do with religion. The Hadith says, "Who so ever innovates a new thing in our religion is rejected". The word 'in our religion' in the Hadith proves that any new thing which is introduced in religion will be Bid'at in religious matters is Haraam and lastly there is nothing like Bid'at-e-Hasana, because, the Hadith says that all types of innovations are rejected.

Answer No.1

Bid'at is not confined to matters concerning religion only because the Sahih Hadiths and the sayings of the Ulama, Fuqaha and Muhaddatheen are against this. A Bid'at is that innovation which came into practice after the blessed age of the Prophet(SAW) be it worldly or religious. A Hadith in the book Mishkat (Babul I'tisaam) says, " Every new thing is a Bid'at". There is no restriction of Bid'at being religious or worldly and we have also quoted the statements from the books Ashi'atul Lam'aat and Mirqaat in the preceding pages which say that Bid'at is not restricted to religious matters only.

In the Chapter 'Types of Bid'at' and their status in Shari'ah in this book we have quoted from the books Mirqaat and Shami that to partake of good food and drink and to wear nice clothes is Bid'at Jaiz. These are worldly affairs, but they have been mentioned as Bid'at which are permissible(Jaiz). Therefore this restriction of Bid'at to matters religious only is wrong and baseless.

Let, us, for a moment, suppose that Bid'at is restricted to religious matters only. Now what can be called a religious matter? The answer will be: that thing which induces thawaab(reward). Mustahhab, Nafl, Wajib, fardh etc. are all religious affairs which are done to gain reward and any worldly action done with a good intention will surely induce reward. It is said in a Hadith that "to meet a Muslim brother with a cheerful face is equal to giving sadaaqa(charity) in Allah's way". Likewise it is rewarding to foster one's children with a good intention. A Hadith says, "Even that morsel of food you put in your wife's mouth is rewarding". Therefore, a Muslim's every action, be it religious or secular is rewarding because it is done with the intention of pleasing Allah Ta'ala.

We will now list a few things which were not there during the blessed age of Rasul Allah(SAWS) but were innovated afterwards and made part and parcel of the religion.

• Construction of Madrassas

• Dividing the Holy Qur'aan into thirty parts

• Marking the Vowel signs on the Holy Qur'aan viz.;Fatha, Kasra, Dhumma (Zabbar, Zer & Pesh)

• Printing the Holy Book and other religious books in the printing press.
  

• The compilation of Ilm-e-Hadith and Fiqh

• To put down the Holy verses of the Qur'aan in paper form, etc.
  

All the above mentioned things are Bid'ats which where not there in the blessed age of Rasul Allah(SAW) but are considered religious. Those who say that Maulid and Fatiha are Bid'ats because they are those religious affairs which were innovated after the blessed age of Rasul Allah(SAW) should have a very close look at the above list and show us which of these things are not included in the religion and which were there in the blessed age?

The Hadith: "Who so ever invents a new thing in our religion is rejected" which you have presented in your objection, really means, that whoever innovates a new belief or who ever innovates a new action which is in contradiction with the Holy Qur'aan and Sunnah will be rejected.

In the last part of the objection you say that all Bid'ats are Haraam and there is nothing like Bid'at-e-Hasana. Such a statement contradict with the Hadith which says that, "whoever sets a good precedent in Islam will be rewarded and who ever sets a bad precedent in Islam will be punished".

We have also quoted from the books Shami and Mirqat that Bid'at is of five categorise viz., Jaiz, Wajib, Mustahhab, Makruh and Haraam. According to your statement we will have to omit many things which are known to be part and parcel of religion but were innovated after the blessed age of Rasul Allah(SAW) such as the Masa'ils of Fiqh, the four Madhabs viz., Hanafi, Shafi, Maliki, Hanbali. The Tariqats viz., Naqshbandiyya, Qadriyya, Chistiyya, Surwardiyya, Alwiyya etc., the devotions of the Sufiyya ikram. The categorisation of the six Kalimas, Imaan-e-mujmal and Imaan-e-Mufassal. The division of the Holy Quran into thirty parts, the compilation of the knowledge of Hadith and the categorisation of Hadith i.e. Sahih, Dha'eef, Hasana Mu'addal etc. The construction of Madrassas and arrangement of their syllabuses and to set a course for achieving the degree of Alim and Qari and to present certificates on the completion of the course to the respective students etc., etc., will all be Haraam according to your statement that all Bid'ats are Haraam and there is nothing like Bid'at-e-Hasana.

In fact there is no act of Shariah or Tariqat which is void of Bid'at. Then how much will you try to avoid such a Haraam (as you say) when it is surrounding your whole religious activity.

So you will have to take back your words and correct your beliefs, and agree that all Bid'ats are not Haraam, but only those Bid'ats are Haraam which contradict with the Holy Quran and Sunna.


Objection No. 2

• Those things which were innovated in the time of the Sahaba, the Tabe'een and the Taba-e-Tabe'een are not Bid'ats they are Sunnats. A Hadith in the book Mishkat Babul-I'tissaaam says, "it is necessary upon you to cling on to my Sunnat and the Sunnat of the four rightly guided Caliphs". In this Hadith the actions of the four rightly guided Caliphs have been mentioned as Sunnat and we have been commanded to follow them, so their actions cannot be called a Bid'at but they are Sunnat.

• In the book Mishkaat Babul Faz'ailus Sahaba there is a Hadith which says, " The best of my Ummah is my generation, then those next to them, then those next to them, then there would come a people whose evidence will precede their oaths and their oaths will precede their evidence" (i.e. they will not be trustworthy). From this we see that the best three generations are those of the Sahaba then of the Tabe'een and then the Tabe Tabi'een. So whatever was innovated in these three generations is Sunnat and whatever was innovated after them is Bid'at.

• "My Ummah will be divided into seventy three groups, all of them will be in hell except one. The respected Sahaba enquired of the group which will be in paradise, the reply came 'That upon which I and my Sahaba are'". From this we see that to follow the respected Sahaba will lead to salvation and that is why their innovations are not Bid'at but Sunnats.

• The book Mishkat Babul Fazailus Sahaba has the Hadith which says: "My Sahaba are like stars whomsoever you follow you will be rightly guided". Even from this we see that to follow the respected Sahaba will lead one to the right guidance, thus actions innovated in their age will not be called Bid'ats but Sunnats because a Bid'at is deluding and misleading and the respected Sahaba are the most rightly guided and have been protected from delusion.

Answer No. 2

• Even this objection is baseless. We defined Bid'at quoting from the books Mirqaat and Ashi'atul Lam'aat that it is that innovation which came after the blessed age of the Prophet(SAW) and not in the age of the Sahaba or the Tabi'een. Secondly, in the book Mishkaat Babul Qiyam Shahr-Ramadhan, it is written that Hazrat Umar(RA) ordered for the congregation in Tarawih prayers during his Caliphate and on seeing the congregation remarked "This is a very nice Bid'at". Hazrat Umar(RA) called his own action a nice Bid'at. Thirdly, to pray the Tarawih prayers individually is Sunnat and to form a regular congregation in these prayers is Bid'at-e-Hasana as we have quoted in the preceding pages from the book Mirqat under the chapter of Bid'at. Fourthly, the second volume of Bukhari Sharif(Kitabul-Fazail-ul-Quran, Bab Jam'ul Quran) says that when Hazrat Abu Bakr(RA) ordered Hazrat Zaid ibn Thabit(RA) to collect the verses of the Holy Quran and compile them in a book form , he replied, "How will you do such a thing which the Holy Prophet(SAW) did not do?" Hazrat Abu Bakr(RA) said, "By Allah this is a good project", Hazrat Zaid's conversation shows that he thought the compilation of the Holy Quran was a Bid'at but Hazrat Abu Bakr's reply was that, though to compile the Holy Quran is a Bid'at but it is a nice Bid'at, shows that the innovations of the Sahaba are Bid'at Hasana.

• In the objection the following Hadith was quoted "It is necessary upon you to cling to my Sunnat and Sunnat of the four rightly guided Caliphs". The acts and statements of the four rightly guided Caliphs have been mentioned as Sunnat in this Hadith. But Sunnat here means Tariqa (Mode, manner) likewise the Hadith which says, "who ever sets a good Sunna in Islam will be rewarded for it..." shows that Sunna here means a mode.

Even the Holy Qur'aan says:

"This is Allah's method which hath ever taken course for His bondsmen." (SXL-85).

and "(such was Qur) method in the case of those whom We sent before thee (to mankind), and thou will not find for Our method aught of power to change. (SXVII-77)

The Sunnat of Allah here means that the method of Allah likewise the Sunnat of Ambiya means the method and mode of the Ambiya.

Under the same Hadith, "It is necessary upon you to cling to my Sunnat and Sunnat of the four rightly guided Caliphs", the book Ashi'atul Lam'aat says:

"The Sunnah of the four rightly guided Caliphs is actually the Sunnah of the Holy Prophet(SAW) but because it was not common in the Holy Prophet's(SAW) time and came to be known in the time of the four Caliphs it is called the Sunnat of the four Caliphs".

So, the Sunnat of the four caliphs is that which is actually the Sunnat of the Holy Prophet(SAW) but was not widespread in his blessed time and the four Caliphs were the ones to circulate it and make it known, so it is called the Sunnat of the four Caliphs.

Fifthly, the Muhadithin and the Fuqaha have said that the works of the four Caliphs are appended to the Sunnat i.e. they are not Sunnat but are continues to the Sunnat. Had the deeds of the Caliphs been Sunnat the scholars would not have mentioned the word "continues to the Sunnat".

In the beginning of the book Noor-ul-Anwer it is written that, "The actions and statements of Sahaba in matters related to reason are based upon analogy and in matters not related to the reason they are based upon Sunnat". So we see that very act of the Sahaba is not a Sunnat but some acts have been deducted through analogy also.

But it is seemliness and a show of respect to refer to those actions which have been innovated in the time of the Sahaba as Sunnat of the Sahaba and not Bid'at of the Sahaba because the word Bid'at is mostly used to mean Bid'at Sai'iyya (Vile innovation).

The book Ashi'atul Lam'aat says regarding this, "Every command and deed of the Khulafa-e-Rashideen, even that based on analogy (Qiyas) and ijtihaad, is in accordance with the Sunnat of the Holy Prophet(SAW) and the word Bid'at should not be used for them".
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• The Hadith "The best of my Ummah is my generation then those next to them ...." shows that in these three generations more good deeds will be committed and the people will be more righteous then the generations to follow. It doesn't say that any innovation which is invented in this age will become a Sunnat! Secondly, there is no mention of Sunnat in this Hadith.

If it is as you say then the misguided sects such as the Jabriyya and Qadriyya were innovated in this period and even the martyrdom of Hazrat Imam Hussain(RA) and the oppression of Hajjaj occurred in this period, then would you say (Allah forbid!) that all these acts are Sunnat?
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• The Hadith "My Ummah will be divided into seventy three sects...". And the Hadith "My Sahaba are like stars, who so ever you follow you will be rightly guided," shows that by following the respected Sahaba one is rightly guided and to disagree with them leads one astray. And this is what every Muslim believes. But even these Hadith do not prove that every deed of the respected Sahaba is a Sunnat of the Shariah. It could be Bid'at Hasana. And those Bid'at Hasana innovated by the Sahaba should be followed by every Muslim. A Hadith in the book Mishkat Babul-I'tisaam says "Adhere to the Sawad-e-Azam (great majority). Whoever isolates from it isolates himself to Hell" and "that thing which the Muslims see as good is considered good by Allah Ta'ala also" and also "whoever drifts a span away from the majority will have lifted the rope of Islam from his neck".
  

Allah says in the Holy Qur'aan:

"And followeth other than the believer's way, We appoint for him that unto which he himself hath turned and expose him unto hell, a hapless journeys end" (SIV-115)

From these ayahs and Hadith we see that it is a duty of every Muslim to stick to the path followed by the majority of the mass (Sawad-e-Azam) and whoever drifts away from it and starts contradicting with it will have drifted himself towards hell. But it is not necessary that every new thing innovated by the Muslims is a Sunnat. It will be a Bid'at; Bid'at Hasana. Just as the innovations of the Sahaba are called Sunnat-e-Sahaba, likewise the innovation of the Salaf-e-Saliheen should be called Sunnat of the Salaf.
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Those people who say that every Bid'at is Haraam should understand the meaning of this universally accepted principle that the origin of everything is Mubah(permissible) i.e. everything is permissible unless a Hukm(command) has come in it's prohibition which will make it Haraam. Every novelty is not prohibited on the grounds that it is something new but the prohibition comes if the novelty is in contradiction with the Holy Qur'aan or the Sunnah.

The ayahs of the Holy Qur'aan along with Hadith and the statements of the Fuqaha(jurisprudents) have approved of this principle. The Holy Qur'aan says:

"O you who believe ask not of things which if disclosed to you may annoy you, and if you ask them why the Qur'aan is yet being revealed, they will be disclosed to you, Allah had pardoned that, and Allah is Oft Forgiving, Most Forbearing".

From this blessed ayat we see that all those things about which no command or prohibition has come have been pardoned. That is why the Holy Qur'aan says regarding those women with whom nikah is prohibited:

"Lawful unto you are all beyond those mentioned".

and it says,

"While he was surely mentioned to you in detail what he has forbidden you".

We see that all things in general are permissible except those which have been forbidden in the Holy Qur'aan and Hadith.

A Hadith in Mishkat, Babul Adobe-ta'aam says, " Permitted is that which Allah has made permissible in His Book, and prohibited is that which Allah has prohibited in His Book and that about which nothing has been mentioned is pardoned". From this Hadith we see that things are of three categories. Firstly, that which is permissible and its permissibility has been established from the Holy Qur'aan. Secondly, that which is impermissible and its impermissibility is established in the Holy Qur'aan. Thirdly, that about which the Holy Qur'aan is silent and these are pardoned.

The book Shami(Vol. 1, Kitabul Taha'rat under the definition of Sunnat) says:

"According to the Hanafis and Shafis it is the accepted principle, that, the origin of every action is permissible". Even in the books of Tafseer such as Khazin, Ruhool Bayan and Khazaainaul-Irfaan it is written the same, that, the origin of everything is permissible unless it has been made impermissible by the Holy Qur'aan.


Some people ask this question "Show us where is it written that Maulid Sharif is permissible or that the Holy Prophet(SAW) ever performed the Maulid or the respected Sahaba or the Tabi'een performed it?

This question is deceiving and misguided. It is upon those who say that Maulid is Haraam to show us which ayah or Hadith has prohibited Maulid and to bring us evidence which supports these words.

How can they say something to be Haraam and that too, Maulid Shareef wherein the praises of the beloved Prophet(SAW) are sung and his blessed biography and actions are mentioned to freshen the minds and give calmness to the soul. When Allah has not made it Haraam nor has any Hadith come in it's prohibition? The Holy Qur'aan's silence on this subject, and the Hadith not having anything against it, indicates that Maulid Shareef is permissible.

Allah says in the Holy Qur'aan:

"Say: I find not in that which is revealed unto him aught prohibited to an eater that he eat thereof, except it be carrion or blood poured froth or swine flesh for that verily is foul"

and He says:

"Say: who has forbidden the adornment of Allah which He had brought froth for His bondsmen and the things clean and pure (which He has provided) for sustenance?"

This proves that not to get indication towards a thing's impermissibility is enough as an evidence for it to be permissible.

Therefore, all these objections are based on the lack of true knowledge of those who make these weak objections. Instead of making these objections these people should concentrate on acquiring true and accurate knowledge from the blessed Alims of the Ahle Sunnat Jamaat. May Allah give us all the opportunity to acquire true knowledge and mend our ways. Ameen.

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The above Article is a translation of the Chapter on Bid'at from the Book Ja'a al-Haqqa Wa Zahaqal Batil by Mufti Ahmed Yar Khan (Rahimahumullah), translated in English by Ayoob Abdul Sattar.

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[fahid_asif]

most of the brelvi activities are present only in India and Pakistan and we know very well there are lot of Muslim area where Hanfi fiqh is practiced. So there is nothing like this there, e,g. Khatam, Gyarhaween, So called Darood(salat) Koonday, chaaleswan, Urs, Mailad, standing for prayer after Aqamat, and so many others. Believe I am also Hanfi but never found these things practiced by Ulamas during peace time(Qoroon ul khair) Now, its time of fitna, every thing can be justified because every one tries to prove his Firqa, not the Islam. I have listened so many time from brelvies that Saudies ar najdi. This is propaganda to make fool the common people of Pakistan. We all know that they are Hanbli, and all of there practices are according to IMAM Ahmed bin Hanbal. So I want to ask the innocent, street movi oriented people that Imam Mehdi will rise from Arab(not Pakistan) and will be mujaddad. They will wash out all bida'at from religion. Which Bida'at? Of course those which were started some generations ago. I want to ask modern fakir, If you can justify your activities other than namaz with other Hanfies? Hanfies from Khair ul qaroon? It is mentioned in dar e Mukhar that it is sunnah to make fist after raising finger on shahadat in Atahayat. While hanfi brelvies, never do this, but all the hanbli, malki, shafee, and hanfi do this practice. In which sense you caal yourself sunni. Allama tahir hanfi mentioned that to kiss thumbs is a wrong hadees refered to Hazrat Abubakar siddique. So brother don't listen me but listen true students of Imam abu hanifa that its wrong, but you still do this. Think globally, serve locally. Another question, If Imam Mehdi and Hazrat Esah will do all those things you do? Please answer last question quickly. And again, I am not from wahabi or najdi background etc. I am Hanfi and I am proud of it that all of my Islamic Practices are according to Peace time Ulamas, not starting from 1900's.

 

[shaheedchoudry]

modern fakir
You are in the wrong section. This will lead to shia/sunni/wahabi etc discussion and finally, the thread will be closed. So take your thought somewhere in religious section.
You never comment on any other issue.You only have Brelvi manifesto to push. I can assure you that it will not work here on this forum. People here are not children of madrassa which can be brainwashed. So I will suggest to go to Ali Hajveri's grave and preach them and also feed them. That way they won't question you.

 

[Cheeko]

The good innovations in Islamic rituals are not only allowed but encouraged. Let us read what has been said about good innovations in religion.

Jarir b. Abdullah reported that some desert Arabs clad in woollen clothes came to Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him). He saw them in sad plight as they had been hard pressed by need. He (the Holy Prophet) exhorted people to give charity, but they showed some reluctance until (signs) of anger could be seen on his face. Then a person from the Ansar came with a purse containing silver. Then came another person and then other persons followed them in succession until signs of happiness could be seen on his (sacred) face. Thereupon Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: He who introduced some good practice in Islam which was followed after him (by people) he would be assured of reward like one who followed it, without their rewards being diminished in any respect. And he who introduced some evil practice in Islam which had been followed subsequently (by others), he would be required to bear the burden like that of one who followed this (evil practice) without their's being diminished in any respect [Sahih Muslim chapter 34 # 6466]

Many people introduced innovations which have been accepted as good ones. Read this Hadees and it is only one example and if you want I can give you many examples.


Narrated Thumama: Anas said, "Um Sulaim used to spread a leather sheet for the Prophet and he used to take a midday nap on that leather sheet at her home." Anas added, "When the Prophet had slept, she would take some of his sweat and hair and collect it (the sweat) in a bottle and then mix it with Suk (a kind of perfume) while he was still sleeping. "When the death of Anas bin Malik approached, he advised that some of that Suk be mixed with his Hanut (perfume for embalming the dead body), and it was mixed with his Hanut [Sahih Bukhari chapter 74 #298]
​

 

[modern fakir]

Brother, from your post it seems that you know alot about me ..without actually knowing the content im posting. I think you have a fair amount of recognition of my name modern fakir. Kindly, next time you see this name as a "Thread starter" please do not care to read or go to another post. At any time their are 50 - 60 posts on this forum ..Am I asking you to come and read mine ?? (bigsmile)

So respectfully, GET LOST if your not interested because Im not moving anywhere and I will keep on posting whatever i feel like posting. Your the one with an issue so scat !(bigsmile)

modern fakir
You are in the wrong section. This will lead to shia/sunni/wahabi etc discussion and finally, the thread will be closed. So take your thought somewhere in religious section.
You never comment on any other issue.You only have Brelvi manifesto to push. I can assure you that it will not work here on this forum. People here are not children of madrassa which can be brainwashed. So I will suggest to go to Ali Hajveri's grave and preach them and also feed them. That way they won't question you.

 

[fahid_asif]

The good innovations in Islamic rituals are not only allowed but encouraged. Let us read what has been said about good innovations in religion.

Jarir b. Abdullah reported that some desert Arabs clad in woollen clothes came to Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him). He saw them in sad plight as they had been hard pressed by need. He (the Holy Prophet) exhorted people to give charity, but they showed some reluctance until (signs) of anger could be seen on his face. Then a person from the Ansar came with a purse containing silver. Then came another person and then other persons followed them in succession until signs of happiness could be seen on his (sacred) face. Thereupon Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: He who introduced some good practice in Islam which was followed after him (by people) he would be assured of reward like one who followed it, without their rewards being diminished in any respect. And he who introduced some evil practice in Islam which had been followed subsequently (by others), he would be required to bear the burden like that of one who followed this (evil practice) without their's being diminished in any respect [Sahih Muslim chapter 34 # 6466]

Many people introduced innovations which have been accepted as good ones. Read this Hadees and it is only one example and if you want I can give you many examples.


Narrated Thumama: Anas said, "Um Sulaim used to spread a leather sheet for the Prophet and he used to take a midday nap on that leather sheet at her home." Anas added, "When the Prophet had slept, she would take some of his sweat and hair and collect it (the sweat) in a bottle and then mix it with Suk (a kind of perfume) while he was still sleeping. "When the death of Anas bin Malik approached, he advised that some of that Suk be mixed with his Hanut (perfume for embalming the dead body), and it was mixed with his Hanut [Sahih Bukhari chapter 74 #298]
​

and whats about to make this part of reliegion and who doesn't follow will become najdi, wahabi etc? e,g may be, may be may be gyarhaween is right, and the person who doesn't practice it or oppose it will be called? yes i am sure you will call him wahabi, najdi etc. SO in this sense, all the shafi, hanbli, malki and most of the hanfi other than india and pakistan will be wahabi? Main piont is this. You people start a new thing and then make it part of Islam and who opposes it, you will give a Fatwa against him. So, conclusion is , Brelvies are the only true Muslims and all the others who doesn't follow them are deviated from Islam.

 

[shaheedchoudry]

Brother, from your post it seems that you know alot about me ..without actually knowing the content im posting. I think you have a fair amount of recognition of my name modern fakir. Kindly, next time you see this name as a "Thread starter" please do not care to read or go to another post. At any time their are 50 - 60 posts on this forum ..Am I asking you to come and read mine ?? (bigsmile)

So respectfully, GET LOST if your not interested because Im not moving anywhere and I will keep on posting whatever i feel like posting. Your the one with an issue so scat !(bigsmile)

After reading your first paragraph, I was feeling sorry and I was about to apologetic but after reading second paragraph, I stick to what I said in my first post. I will suggest to take your post in religious section. Or it will be closed after religious debate.

 

[modern fakir]

Brother in Arabic and Turkic Terms Gywarween is called Eithal e Thawab and the Urs of Hazrat Sheikh Abdul Qadir al Jeelani is held in Baghdad every year specially with the followers of Qadri Sufi order . You can youtube it and see .:) As far as khatm ul quran goes then do some searches on this concept for Ahle sunnah scholars from jordan, syria, iraq, turkey, palestine and you will be surprised what you will find :)

Lastly brother their is no such thing as brelvi. It is Ahle Sunnah wal Jaamaah and im not posting brailvy literature here this is all Islamic literature with proof from Quran and Sunnah.

And like the scholar said everything is either Halaal, Haraam or Pardoned ..Anyone having any issues with this must show us proof how Eithal e sawab or any other such activity is not Allowed in Islam in the light of the Quran and Sunnah :)

most of the brelvi activities are present only in India and Pakistan and we know very well there are lot of Muslim area where Hanfi fiqh is practiced. So there is nothing like this there, e,g. Khatam, Gyarhaween, So called Darood(salat) Koonday, chaaleswan, Urs, Mailad, standing for prayer after Aqamat, and so many others. Believe I am also Hanfi but never found these things practiced by Ulamas during peace time(Qoroon ul khair) Now, its time of fitna, every thing can be justified because every one tries to prove his Firqa, not the Islam. I have listened so many time from brelvies that Saudies ar najdi. This is propaganda to make fool the common people of Pakistan. We all know that they are Hanbli, and all of there practices are according to IMAM Ahmed bin Hanbal. So I want to ask the innocent, street movi oriented people that Imam Mehdi will rise from Arab(not Pakistan) and will be mujaddad. They will wash out all bida'at from religion. Which Bida'at? Of course those which were started some generations ago. I want to ask modern fakir, If you can justify your activities other than namaz with other Hanfies? Hanfies from Khair ul qaroon? It is mentioned in dar e Mukhar that it is sunnah to make fist after raising finger on shahadat in Atahayat. While hanfi brelvies, never do this, but all the hanbli, malki, shafee, and hanfi do this practice. In which sense you caal yourself sunni. Allama tahir hanfi mentioned that to kiss thumbs is a wrong hadees refered to Hazrat Abubakar siddique. So brother don't listen me but listen true students of Imam abu hanifa that its wrong, but you still do this. Think globally, serve locally. Another question, If Imam Mehdi and Hazrat Esah will do all those things you do? Please answer last question quickly. And again, I am not from wahabi or najdi background etc. I am Hanfi and I am proud of it that all of my Islamic Practices are according to Peace time Ulamas, not starting from 1900's.

 

[fahid_asif]

Brother, from your post it seems that you know alot about me ..without actually knowing the content im posting. I think you have a fair amount of recognition of my name modern fakir. Kindly, next time you see this name as a "Thread starter" please do not care to read or go to another post. At any time their are 50 - 60 posts on this forum ..Am I asking you to come and read mine ?? (bigsmile)

So respectfully, GET LOST if your not interested because Im not moving anywhere and I will keep on posting whatever i feel like posting. [HI]Your the one with an issue so scat [/HI]!(bigsmile)

This is ordinary way of tableegh by brelvies, who doesn't accept, will be loaded with fatwas and abuses.

 

[modern fakir]

Ive stated my case and im sticking to it and unless you have something constructive to say ..which i seriously doubt ..I'll just continue ignoring you like i ignore countless other posts ;) ..Have Fun (bigsmile)

After reading your first paragraph, I was feeling sorry and I was about to apologetic but after reading second paragraph, I stick to what I said in my first post. I will suggest to take your post in religious section. Or it will be closed after religious debate.

 

[lotaa]

shame on u aik abbu jahal tha ,aur tum abbu munafaq ho,darood sharif ko socalled keh rahay ho,jis ka parhnay ka hukkam ALLAh ne diya hai,jawab na ho tu munafeq aisay hi karta hay jaisa tum ne kiya,

most of the brelvi activities are present only in India and Pakistan and we know very well there are lot of Muslim area where Hanfi fiqh is practiced. So there is nothing like this there, e,g. Khatam, Gyarhaween, So called Darood(salat) Koonday, chaaleswan, Urs, Mailad, standing for prayer after Aqamat, and so many others. Believe I am also Hanfi but never found these things practiced by Ulamas during peace time(Qoroon ul khair) Now, its time of fitna, every thing can be justified because every one tries to prove his Firqa, not the Islam. I have listened so many time from brelvies that Saudies ar najdi. This is propaganda to make fool the common people of Pakistan. We all know that they are Hanbli, and all of there practices are according to IMAM Ahmed bin Hanbal. So I want to ask the innocent, street movi oriented people that Imam Mehdi will rise from Arab(not Pakistan) and will be mujaddad. They will wash out all bida'at from religion. Which Bida'at? Of course those which were started some generations ago. I want to ask modern fakir, If you can justify your activities other than namaz with other Hanfies? Hanfies from Khair ul qaroon? It is mentioned in dar e Mukhar that it is sunnah to make fist after raising finger on shahadat in Atahayat. While hanfi brelvies, never do this, but all the hanbli, malki, shafee, and hanfi do this practice. In which sense you caal yourself sunni. Allama tahir hanfi mentioned that to kiss thumbs is a wrong hadees refered to Hazrat Abubakar siddique. So brother don't listen me but listen true students of Imam abu hanifa that its wrong, but you still do this. Think globally, serve locally. Another question, If Imam Mehdi and Hazrat Esah will do all those things you do? Please answer last question quickly. And again, I am not from wahabi or najdi background etc. I am Hanfi and I am proud of it that all of my Islamic Practices are according to Peace time Ulamas, not starting from 1900's.

 

[modern fakir]

Sorry ???...If your trying to imply that Im barelvi ..then my friend keep on trying ..because certainly you calling me something doesnt make me one :lol:

Oh and by the way ..I think i seem to be presenting the most accurate Ahle Sunnah wal Jamaah Ideology ...and certainly not from the biddat,shirk and kufr Brigade who come up here and start calling muslims unbelievers (Astaghfirullah) ..may god help those souls.

But guys honestly, this is useless.. You wanna argue on the point in the article thats fine...but if your comeback with lame answers with an intention to start conflict then YOU WILL BE IGNORED (bigsmile)

This is according to the rule that When a Momin comes across RUBBISH he Ignores it (bigsmile)

have Fun !

This is ordinary way of tableegh by brelvies, who doesn't accept, will be loaded with fatwas and abuses.

 

[fahid_asif]

Brother in Arabic and Turkic Terms Gywarween is called Eithal e Thawab and the Urs of Hazrat Sheikh Abdul Qadir al Jeelani is held in Baghdad every year specially with the followers of Qadri Sufi order . You can youtube it and see .:) As far as khatm ul quran goes then do some searches on this concept for Ahle sunnah scholars from jordan, syria, iraq, turkey, palestine and you will be surprised what you will find :)

Lastly brother their is no such thing as brelvi. It is Ahle Sunnah wal Jaamaah and im not posting brailvy literature here this is all Islamic literature with proof from Quran and Sunnah.

And like the scholar said everything is either Halaal, Haraam or Pardoned ..Anyone having any issues with this must show us proof how Eithal e sawab or any other such activity is not Allowed in Islam in the light of the Quran and Sunnah :)

You have not answered last question? I am not against Esal e sawab, as our family also does this. But I am against a self made practice to ask a molvi read specific part of Quran, on specific time on specific food on specific date etc. Esal e swab is sadqa e jariea for dead person and its EHSAN on him, but to arrange a food party in which molvies and class guests are served with class food and others with common. Brother, I have passed so much time in these, I am eye witness of these. So please come out of these, our religion is simple, beautiful, and mostly We belong to Imam Azam who served the true sense of Islam. So why not to refer him instead of today's molvies? You can see in these gatherings, only molvies get benifit. Now I am telling you the truth. In recent ramzan, One of my friend Ishfaq Ahmed Malhi, Cusin of Mudassar Qayyum Nahra(MNA-Nleague) arranged a khatam in his house (DC road Gujranwala. He called me and My friend Rana Abdul Jabbar to arrange for a molvi and some students to read Yaseen. It was the time of Aser. We contacted with A molvi. He told that he is already going to nearby house for this purpose. After that, it came into known that they were poor and arranged very ordinary food stuff (daal chawal). Rana Abdul jabbar is a clever person, he told the molvi that the khatam we are offering is at MNA's Cousins home and so many stuff is present. Believe me or not, he not only agreed but also took out all his students from that house and went with us. That was turning point for me. In the end, most of our activities, benefit molvies. Now I daily pray, and try to copy the stuff presented by Allah, Rasool, Suhaba, Mujtaheds. And thats enough for me.

 

[mh.saghir]

I had few queries, mind solving it???

1st: I am not calling you a barelvi but all of your ideas belong to that one particular section of this Ummah; so could you give any example of theses activities from the life of Sahabah and Taba-Tabain???

2ndly: If you could explain me the purpose of all these activities, e.g. Urs, Giyarwi Shareef, etc.

and let me tell you, I didn't read your 1st post regarding this thread. Now you can answer me...

 

[fahid_asif]

shame on u aik abbu jahal tha ,aur tum abbu munafaq ho,darood sharif ko socalled keh rahay ho,jis ka parhnay ka hukkam ALLAh ne diya hai,jawab na ho tu munafeq aisay hi karta hay jaisa tum ne kiya,

Go to eye hospital. Here in Pakistan it is concept that Salat is darood. While When the aya of sending darood on Muhammad PBUH came, suba asked prophet that we already read salam but waht is this now? thses are the words of Sahah e sitta that Prophet PBUH told them Darood e ibrahimi. So guy I am gonna to accept this darood not your so called which is practiced by you only! jawab nhi mila 1 sawal ka b aur lafzoon ko tror maror ker apni marzi ka matlab nikal ker fatwa jari kertay ho? kal ko tum namaz nai bna lo aur main usay so called namaz kahon to main abu jahel? bhaya apnay graiban main jhanko aur darood to wohi ha jo suhaba, tabi, mujtahed partay they, aj k fitnay k daur main dukandari chamkanay walay movi nhi...........think iy and give the answer of last questuion of post............

 

[Cheeko]

and whats about to make this part of reliegion and who doesn't follow will become najdi, wahabi etc? e,g may be, may be may be gyarhaween is right, and the person who doesn't practice it or oppose it will be called? yes i am sure you will call him wahabi, najdi etc. SO in this sense, all the shafi, hanbli, malki and most of the hanfi other than india and pakistan will be wahabi? Main piont is this. You people start a new thing and then make it part of Islam and who opposes it, you will give a Fatwa against him. So, conclusion is , Brelvies are the only true Muslims and all the others who doesn't follow them are deviated from Islam.

I do not practice ghyarweeh shareef but can say those who do may have a valid reason for it. No one says that not doing any practice makes someone a wahabi but attacking me for something for which I have a valid reason with basic outlines from Quran and Hadees does make the attacker a fitna mongerer. I have told you the Hadees below and if you do not practice it like that you do not become a wahabi but if you attack someone following it you do become a fitna mongerer. Hope I have answered.

Narrated Thumama: Anas said, "Um Sulaim used to spread a leather sheet for the Prophet and he used to take a midday nap on that leather sheet at her home." Anas added, "When the Prophet had slept, she would take some of his sweat and hair and collect it (the sweat) in a bottle and then mix it with Suk (a kind of perfume) while he was still sleeping. "When the death of Anas bin Malik approached, he advised that some of that Suk be mixed with his Hanut (perfume for embalming the dead body), and it was mixed with his Hanut [Sahih Bukhari chapter 74 #298]

 

[MuslimPK]

You have not answered last question? I am not against Esal e sawab, as our family also does this. But I am against a self made practice to ask a molvi read specific part of Quran, on specific time on specific food on specific date etc. Esal e swab is sadqa e jariea for dead person and its EHSAN on him, but to arrange a food party in which molvies and class guests are served with class food and others with common. Brother, I have passed so much time in these, I am eye witness of these. So please come out of these, our religion is simple, beautiful, and mostly We belong to Imam Azam who served the true sense of Islam. So why not to refer him instead of today's molvies? You can see in these gatherings, only molvies get benifit. Now I am telling you the truth. In recent ramzan, One of my friend Ishfaq Ahmed Malhi, Cusin of Mudassar Qayyum Nahra(MNA-Nleague) arranged a khatam in his house (DC road Gujranwala. He called me and My friend Rana Abdul Jabbar to arrange for a molvi and some students to read Yaseen. It was the time of Aser. We contacted with A molvi. He told that he is already going to nearby house for this purpose. After that, it came into known that they were poor and arranged very ordinary food stuff (daal chawal). Rana Abdul jabbar is a clever person, he told the molvi that the khatam we are offering is at MNA's Cousins home and so many stuff is present. Believe me or not, he not only agreed but also took out all his students from that house and went with us. That was turning point for me. In the end, most of our activities, benefit molvies. Now I daily pray, and try to copy the stuff presented by Allah, Rasool, Suhaba, Mujtaheds. And thats enough for me.

Dear brothers, avoid these barelvis. They are far from siraat-e-Mustaqeem and hidayah. Dont waste your time on these dumb, deaf and blind people. Allah S.W.T has sealed their hearts. Leave them in their shirk, grave worshiping, music, dhamal, samaa, peer worshiping, urs, wahdatul wajood and other kufria practices

 

[MuslimPK]

Sorry ???...If your trying to imply that Im barelvi ..then my friend keep on trying ..because certainly you calling me something doesnt make me one :lol:

Oh and by the way ..I think i seem to be presenting the most accurate Ahle Sunnah wal Jamaah Ideology ...and certainly not from the biddat,shirk and kufr Brigade who come up here and start calling muslims unbelievers (Astaghfirullah) ..may god help those souls.

But guys honestly, this is useless.. You wanna argue on the point in the article thats fine...but if your comeback with lame answers with an intention to start conflict then YOU WILL BE IGNORED (bigsmile)

This is according to the rule that When a Momin comes across RUBBISH he Ignores it (bigsmile)

have Fun !

Do you Ahle Bidaah really understand proof? I dont think so. You paste countless pages from your barevi web sites but dont bother to understand whats in it

 

[modern fakir]

Alhamdulillah ..We the Ahle Sunnah are proud of not calling anyone names and biddatees like you shirk,kufr,biddatee brigade men....because that is ALL THAT EVER COMES OUT OF YOUR MOUTH. It is the worse thing to address anyone with and the Prophet Muhammad pbuh specifically mentioned that any believer calling names to another believer will be the true reciepient of that label if he is untrue. So Dude it is all coming back to you (bigsmile).

And,if we are so bad ...why are you posting and reading our posts ...please feel free to leave ..BUT The fact is out of 50 - 60 different posts YOU CHOOSE TO COME HERE (bigsmile)

Thats the FACT ! (clap)

Do you Ahle Bidaah really understand proof? I don’t think so. You paste countless pages from your barevi web sites but don’t bother to understand what’s in it

 

[MuslimPK]

Alhamdulillah ..We the Ahle Sunnah are proud of not calling anyone names and biddatees like you shirk,kufr,biddatee brigade men....because that is ALL THAT EVER COMES OUT OF YOUR MOUTH. It is the worse thing to address anyone with and the Prophet Muhammad pbuh specifically mentioned that any believer calling names to another believer will be the true reciepient of that label if he is untrue. So Dude it is all coming back to you (bigsmile).

And,if we are so bad ...why are you posting and reading our posts ...please feel free to leave ..BUT The fact is out of 50 - 60 different posts YOU CHOOSE TO COME HERE (bigsmile)

Thats the FACT ! (clap)

Your so called Mujaddade Deen e Bidaat Alaa Hazrat has started this bidaah of fatwas of kufar against deobandis, ahle hadith etc. Did you read his malfoozat full of shirk and bidhaah and fatwas of kufar against every one except who believe in him. I am calling Ahle Bidaah mushrik because they worship graves; pray sojood to peers, pray from dead people in graves, perform hajj in Pakistan. Didnt you see all these mushrikana amaal in Pakistan, India? Astaghfirullah.